Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (2025)

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Post by hedabla99 on May 23, 2020 17:14:37 GMT Post by sgtbilby on May 27, 2020 5:50:27 GMT Post by doraemon2000 on May 27, 2020 17:04:03 GMT Post by sgtbilby on May 28, 2020 2:50:37 GMT Post by doraemon2000 on May 28, 2020 4:06:01 GMT Post by MediaMonster on May 28, 2020 19:53:55 GMT Post by sgtbilby on May 31, 2020 13:15:56 GMT Post by MediaMonster on May 31, 2020 16:26:41 GMT Post by doraemon2000 on Jun 1, 2020 0:34:17 GMT Post by hedabla99 on Jun 2, 2020 4:18:29 GMT Post by sgtbilby on Jun 2, 2020 15:21:59 GMT Post by hedabla99 on Jun 3, 2020 1:46:45 GMT Post by sgtbilby on Jun 3, 2020 12:57:46 GMT Post by doraemon2000 on Jun 3, 2020 15:07:17 GMT Post by TheGodzillerMcW on Jun 14, 2020 21:35:01 GMT Discord
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 23, 2020 17:14:37 GMTforlornjackalope likes this

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Post by hedabla99 on May 23, 2020 17:14:37 GMT

Does anyone here have any info on the lost American dub of Lupin III Part 1? Supposedly it was called "The Viper" and aired in 1972, a year after the series aired in Japan. Other than that I don't know that much about it, and it doesn't look like there's a lot of info online as Google searches turn nothing up. Any anime experts on here who might know a thing or two about this obscure dub?

sgtbilby
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 27, 2020 17:04:03 GMT

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Post by doraemon2000 on May 27, 2020 17:04:03 GMT

Interesting, and we thought that this anime was never dubbed into English. Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (17)I knew I had this feeling that Lupin III Part 1 was dubbed in English, but nobody knew about it.

Last Edit: May 27, 2020 22:13:24 GMT by doraemon2000

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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 28, 2020 2:50:37 GMT

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Post by sgtbilby on May 28, 2020 2:50:37 GMT

I have bad feeling this will be like Albert and Sydney
Nothing but false leads and hearsay

doraemon2000
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 28, 2020 4:06:01 GMT

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Post by doraemon2000 on May 28, 2020 4:06:01 GMT

I know, right? Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (28) Then, we might end up finding more info on this dub, where the dubbing company that has done it would be revealed and some other info, just like what happened to the "Albert and Sydney" dub of Doraemon. And then, Lupin III fans would find out about the existence of this dub and then there would be a big hunt for it. I know this is just a prediction I thought of, but I might be wrong.

MediaMonster
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 28, 2020 19:53:55 GMTvia mobile

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Post by MediaMonster on May 28, 2020 19:53:55 GMT

I can’t seem to find anything on Google regarding its existence besides this post. Do you remember where you first heard about this dub? Or even better, do you have any sources available that could prove that this dub existed? I don’t doubt the credibility of your story, it’s just that this time period is very poorly documented online.

sgtbilby
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 31, 2020 13:15:56 GMTMediaMonster and likalaruku like this

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Post by sgtbilby on May 31, 2020 13:15:56 GMT

Let's think for a moment
Lupin the 3rd (Green Jacket era) aired in 1971
Anime in the US back then was neither mainstream or in vogue at that time
The only faithful dub was Star Blazers (well, the 1st season at least)
Most anime during the '70s-early 1980s was met with americanization up the arse (Battle of the Planets being one such example)
It would be impossible for the 1971 Lupin to be brought to the US for many reasons
1. at the time (until the mid 2000s) TMS was in a legal struggle with the Maurice LeBlanc estate whom at the time (until now) had rights to Arsene Lupin hence the constant renaming of Lupin outside of Japan (noted examples: Cliff [Cliff Hanger (the arcade game)], The Wolf [Streamline Pictures's dubs of Lupin]) plus a planned Lupin the 8th anime intended for western (US, UK/EU) audiences was scrapped due to legal complications with the LeBlanc estate which lead TMS and DiC to retool it into "Inspector Gadget" [yes, really!]
2. Lupin 1971 was not kid friendly (well the 2nd half is but that aside the point)
3. Anime in the US was mostly allocated to syndication (which makes it hard for people to find it depending on where you live)
4. Distributors are nit picky in terms of what to localize during this rocky time for Anime in the USA (take "Rocky Joe" for example, It's distributor shit canned the dub due to quickly realizing how dark the show gets later on)
5. TMS never got lucky with the US until the mid/late 1980s by way of outsourcing (DuckTales, TaleSpin, Batman TAS, etc) - their anime however was hardly or never brought over to the US (example of TMS anime that was denied US distribution: The Adventures of Gamba) until the mid-late 1990s [hell, Lupin wasn't brought to the US until the early 2000s courtesy of the now defunct Pioneer/Geneon]

Last Edit: May 31, 2020 13:53:20 GMT by sgtbilby

MediaMonster
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)May 31, 2020 16:26:41 GMTvia mobile

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Post by MediaMonster on May 31, 2020 16:26:41 GMT

100% agree with Bilby on this one. I did some more research, and I couldn’t find a single mention of it on archive.org. The only other place that mentions it is a TV Tropes page that cites this thread as a source. I feel like this is a complete fabrication.

doraemon2000
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hedabla99
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)Jun 2, 2020 4:18:29 GMT

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Post by hedabla99 on Jun 2, 2020 4:18:29 GMT

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (50)

May 31, 2020 13:15:56 GMT sgtbilby said:

Let's think for a moment
Lupin the 3rd (Green Jacket era) aired in 1971
Anime in the US back then was neither mainstream or in vogue at that time
The only faithful dub was Star Blazers (well, the 1st season at least)
Most anime during the '70s-early 1980s was met with americanization up the arse (Battle of the Planets being one such example)
It would be impossible for the 1971 Lupin to be brought to the US for many reasons
1. at the time (until the mid 2000s) TMS was in a legal struggle with the Maurice LeBlanc estate whom at the time (until now) had rights to Arsene Lupin hence the constant renaming of Lupin outside of Japan (noted examples: Cliff [Cliff Hanger (the arcade game)], The Wolf [Streamline Pictures's dubs of Lupin]) plus a planned Lupin the 8th anime intended for western (US, UK/EU) audiences was scrapped due to legal complications with the LeBlanc estate which lead TMS and DiC to retool it into "Inspector Gadget" [yes, really!]
2. Lupin 1971 was not kid friendly (well the 2nd half is but that aside the point)
3. Anime in the US was mostly allocated to syndication (which makes it hard for people to find it depending on where you live)
4. Distributors are nit picky in terms of what to localize during this rocky time for Anime in the USA (take "Rocky Joe" for example, It's distributor shit canned the dub due to quickly realizing how dark the show gets later on)
5. TMS never got lucky with the US until the mid/late 1980s by way of outsourcing (DuckTales, TaleSpin, Batman TAS, etc) - their anime however was hardly or never brought over to the US (example of TMS anime that was denied US distribution: The Adventures of Gamba) until the mid-late 1990s [hell, Lupin wasn't brought to the US until the early 2000s courtesy of the now defunct Pioneer/Geneon]

The only sources I've found were a brief passage in The Anime Encyclopedia by John Clements and Helen McCarthy. I believe that book had several revisions and I'm not sure which one it was in. There was also a mention of it on lupinencyclopedia.com but when I went back there I couldn't seem to find it, either because it was deleted or was buried deep somewhere in one of the countless threads on the site. I wouldn't ask them there-- it looks like the activity on that site is pretty much dead.

As for how it could have aired, it probably aired on a local station as there's no way it could have gotten past the censors on one of the big networks such as CBS or NBC. That's the problem with old, locally produced TV shows, it's nearly impossible to find them if you don't know where and when they aired.

sgtbilby
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)Jun 2, 2020 15:21:59 GMT

Quote

Post by sgtbilby on Jun 2, 2020 15:21:59 GMT

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (56)

Jun 2, 2020 4:18:29 GMT hedabla99 said:

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (57)

May 31, 2020 13:15:56 GMT sgtbilby said:

Let's think for a moment
Lupin the 3rd (Green Jacket era) aired in 1971
Anime in the US back then was neither mainstream or in vogue at that time
The only faithful dub was Star Blazers (well, the 1st season at least)
Most anime during the '70s-early 1980s was met with americanization up the arse (Battle of the Planets being one such example)
It would be impossible for the 1971 Lupin to be brought to the US for many reasons
1. at the time (until the mid 2000s) TMS was in a legal struggle with the Maurice LeBlanc estate whom at the time (until now) had rights to Arsene Lupin hence the constant renaming of Lupin outside of Japan (noted examples: Cliff [Cliff Hanger (the arcade game)], The Wolf [Streamline Pictures's dubs of Lupin]) plus a planned Lupin the 8th anime intended for western (US, UK/EU) audiences was scrapped due to legal complications with the LeBlanc estate which lead TMS and DiC to retool it into "Inspector Gadget" [yes, really!]
2. Lupin 1971 was not kid friendly (well the 2nd half is but that aside the point)
3. Anime in the US was mostly allocated to syndication (which makes it hard for people to find it depending on where you live)
4. Distributors are nit picky in terms of what to localize during this rocky time for Anime in the USA (take "Rocky Joe" for example, It's distributor shit canned the dub due to quickly realizing how dark the show gets later on)
5. TMS never got lucky with the US until the mid/late 1980s by way of outsourcing (DuckTales, TaleSpin, Batman TAS, etc) - their anime however was hardly or never brought over to the US (example of TMS anime that was denied US distribution: The Adventures of Gamba) until the mid-late 1990s [hell, Lupin wasn't brought to the US until the early 2000s courtesy of the now defunct Pioneer/Geneon]

The only sources I've found were a brief passage in The Anime Encyclopedia by John Clements and Helen McCarthy. I believe that book had several revisions and I'm not sure which one it was in. There was also a mention of it on lupinencyclopedia.com but when I went back there I couldn't seem to find it, either because it was deleted or was buried deep somewhere in one of the countless threads on the site. I wouldn't ask them there-- it looks like the activity on that site is pretty much dead.

As for how it could have aired, it probably aired on a local station as there's no way it could have gotten past the censors on one of the big networks such as CBS or NBC. That's the problem with old, locally produced TV shows, it's nearly impossible to find them if you don't know where and when they aired.

Syndicated anime is also prone to censorship
Noted examples being Season 2 of Star Blazers (copping out the finale), DiC's run of "Sailor Moon", Saban's run of "Dragon Ball Z" and again.. BATTLE OF THE PLANETS
I'm sure they revised any mention of this hypothetical dub as they can't find any proof to back up the existence of it
We know Rocky Joe existed and why it's dub was scrapped, We know Gamba almost got a dub but US broadcasters didn't give him a chance
Also again, Anime in the '70s - early '80s [and especially the early 1990s] in US broadcast is normally seen in the same light as typical SatAm fare thus they were prone to the same guidelines as US fare until the rise of cable television and venues like Sci-Fi (now Syfy) Television and CN's "Toonami" became a thing

Last Edit: Jun 2, 2020 15:39:01 GMT by sgtbilby

hedabla99
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)Jun 3, 2020 1:46:45 GMT

Quote

Post by hedabla99 on Jun 3, 2020 1:46:45 GMT

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (61)

May 28, 2020 4:06:01 GMT doraemon2000 said:

I know, right? Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (62) Then, we might end up finding more info on this dub, where the dubbing company that has done it would be revealed and some other info, just like what happened to the "Albert and Sydney" dub of Doraemon. And then, Lupin III fans would find out about the existence of this dub and then there would be a big hunt for it. I know this is just a prediction I thought of, but I might be wrong.

Problem is, the company that produced the dub is probably long dead. At least there were some possibly ways to try and find more info on Albert and Sidney given it was allegedly produced by a well-known company that still exists today.

sgtbilby
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)Jun 3, 2020 12:57:46 GMT

Quote

Post by sgtbilby on Jun 3, 2020 12:57:46 GMT

Again, There's no evidence apart from hearsay that the dub even exists
As i stated, It's not possible or logical that the 1971 Lupin anime would get a dub given the climate anime was in during that time
Again, the only anime that got away with some mature subject manner but met with minor alteration was Star Blazers (even though the 3rd season was re-tuned into a comedy with all of it's content left uncut - as noted by Corn Pone Flicks's retrospective on the dub)
Those beyond that are met with heavy alteration (especially those aimed for syndication) like Captain Harlock (which went through 2 or 3 failed english dubs), Candy Candy and many others
Plus as i also mentioned, Aside from the tone shift in the 2nd half of the 1971 series - 1971 Lupin won't work in the US given the mindset towards anime and cartoons at that time .. and even if they tried, It'll likely dub the Takahata-Miyazaki episodes of the 1971 series and not the 1st half because "think of the children"

As i also stated, Anime during the 70s, 80s and early 90s [at that time] have syndication and/or home video as their only outlets and distributors of those platforms are very picky of whom to dub for US audiences (namely what would be toyetic or bring in big ratings - something along those lines) hence why gems like TMS's Adventures of Gamba never saw a US dub and why Gundam and Lupin never saw a US debut until the dawn of the New Millennium (1997-2000s)

Last Edit: Jun 3, 2020 13:15:18 GMT by sgtbilby

doraemon2000
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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)Jun 3, 2020 15:07:17 GMT

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Post by doraemon2000 on Jun 3, 2020 15:07:17 GMT

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (73)

Jun 3, 2020 1:46:45 GMT hedabla99 said:

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (74)

May 28, 2020 4:06:01 GMT doraemon2000 said:

I know, right? Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (75) Then, we might end up finding more info on this dub, where the dubbing company that has done it would be revealed and some other info, just like what happened to the "Albert and Sydney" dub of Doraemon. And then, Lupin III fans would find out about the existence of this dub and then there would be a big hunt for it. I know this is just a prediction I thought of, but I might be wrong.

Problem is, the company that produced the dub is probably long dead. At least there were some possibly ways to try and find more info on Albert and Sidney given it was allegedly produced by a well-known company that still exists today.

Oh, you have a point there. I guess it may take a very long time for it to be seen. Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (76)

Last Edit: Jun 3, 2020 15:08:03 GMT by doraemon2000

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Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972)Jun 14, 2020 21:35:01 GMT

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Post by TheGodzillerMcW on Jun 14, 2020 21:35:01 GMT

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (79)

Jun 3, 2020 1:46:45 GMT hedabla99 said:

Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (80)

May 28, 2020 4:06:01 GMT doraemon2000 said:

I know, right? Lupin III Part 1 "The Viper" lost US dub (1972) | Forums - The Lost Media Wiki (81) Then, we might end up finding more info on this dub, where the dubbing company that has done it would be revealed and some other info, just like what happened to the "Albert and Sydney" dub of Doraemon. And then, Lupin III fans would find out about the existence of this dub and then there would be a big hunt for it. I know this is just a prediction I thought of, but I might be wrong.

Problem is, the company that produced the dub is probably long dead. At least there were some possibly ways to try and find more info on Albert and Sidney given it was allegedly produced by a well-known company that still exists today.

Has the company been absorbed by any other entity or were it's assets sold off? A copy of the dub may not be in circulation but in the archive of the company that ended up buying the producers of the dub, if any did.

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